[spec] Using a gitlab

PJ vM pjvm742 at disroot.org
Mon Mar 15 12:35:59 GMT 2021


On 14/03/2021 23:46, Sean Conner wrote:
> It was thus said that the Great Liam once stated:
>> I did find the GitLab move strange. IMO it's not very "mission
>> coherent" to develop a lightweight alternative to the web on a site
>> that shows a blank white page without JavaScript enabled.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Second, about that "lightweight alternative to the web" bit ...
> having been involved with Gemini since before the mailing list, it
> was clear to me that Gemini was never about a "lightweight
> alternative to the web" but an improved gopher.  I think thinking of
> Gemini in terms of the web leads to all these proposed extensions
> (size, caching, uploads, etc.).  I think it's a failure to set
> expectations, but that's me.

I've seen you say something to the extent of "Gemini is not an
alternative to the web but an improvement on Gopher" multiple times. I
think you're treating this as a one-or-the-other thing when in reality
it's both.

Now for sure, Gemini is not a /compromise/ between Gopher and the web.
It does not meet the web in the middle, it's much, much closer to
Gopher. Most of the inspiration taken from the web is in the form of
pitfalls to avoid. But it is definitely an alternative to the web:
Gemini can do many of the useful things that the web can do. And a lot
of people who come to Gemini are fleeing from the web.

Anyway, simply because many people interested in Gemini absolutely
despise the web, I do think Liam's point that Gitlab is not "mission
coherent" stands. Or perhaps not "audience coherent" is a better term.

> It was suggested I set one up using gitlab (and no, I won't say who 
> made the suggestion).

You mean repeat. You said who suggested it when you announced it.

> I completely disagree with participation without an account.  I'm
> sorry, but my experience with Gemini has shown that it's all too easy
> to bitch about it than to do anything about it.  [...]  Anyway, to
> get back onto the point---if you want to bitch about Gemini, I think
> it's fair to have some skin, however minimal, in the game.  If
> setting up an account is too much, tough!
> 
> I AM aware that there may be some technical difficulties in using
> gitlab and there are some who would participate that are otherwise
> unable to do so. For them, yes, the mailing list is still good---I do
> follow both (and yes, that means I hit *each and every* issue page on
> gitlab nearly everyday, even if I don't reply).
So first of all I don't really see the point - if people want to "bitch"
without creating a gitlab account, they can just send an email to the list.

Secondly, it matters how broad the scope of the gitlab issue tracker is.
If it was just something for you in your role as "BDFLA" and was
restricted to things over which Solderpunk gave you authority -
"addressing edge cases, removing ambiguities and increasing overall
consistency" - if issues that suggest major changes (such as removing a
status code) were closed immediately with the comment "not my remit" -
if that was the case it'd be fine for you to decide that gitlab is the
right platform for this and that making an account should be required,
because then it's for you. But if you are going to let issues that
suggest major changes stand, then it becomes a platform with as broad a
scope as the [spec] topic of the mailing list, and frankly in that case
your opinion about whether an account should be required to comment
*should not matter*.

Lastly, I strongly doubt that requiring an account to comment benefits
the quality of discussion in any way. Your thinking about "skin in the
game" is interesting, but not more than interesting. In fact, I think
using gitlab is bad for the discussion quality for a few reasons:

* because of it being split across multiple webpages that few people
look at unless they're linked to a specific issue, the discussion is not
visible enough, there is not enough scrutiny. This can lead to nonsense
arguments not being countered for weeks (probably acquiring multiple
thumbs up from uncritical readers), or even a "the person who files the
issue is more likely to win"-type situation
* you turn away those who are least tolerant of the web, those who are
not favoured by cloudflare, and those who refuse to make a gitlab
account for this because they feel they shouldn't have to

-- 
pjvm


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