Telescope request

Omar Polo op at omarpolo.com
Fri Jul 2 08:20:01 BST 2021


charliebrownau <charliebrownau at protonmail.com> writes:

> Gday Omar Polo

Hello :)

> Could you please mirror Telescope on sourcehut
> A large amount of people are migrating away
> from git/github/gitlab

I don't think I can, sorry, at least for the moment.  Don't get me
wrong, I love sourcehut (from what I've seen from the outside at least)
and think it's a great product.  It would be probably very helpful, not
only for telescope but for gmid too, to have a mirror there.  There is a
built-in mailing list, and the CI supports even some BSDs from what I've
heard.

However, I have a personal VPS and I'm using GitHub only as a mirror and
file storage: it's possible to clone the code from
https://git.omarpolo.com/telescope and for issue/patches/feature request
I'm always available via email -- either on this address or at
telescope@ <the same host>.

On github I'm hosting only the versioned tarballs and the binaries.
Because I'm not trusting them enough, everything is also signed with my
gpg and signify key too.

I was thinking (not too seriously) about mirroring the code on codeberg
too since I've ended up with creating and account there, if it would
help someone.

> Also please seriously consider releasing the program
> as an appimage, even if its only major release milestones

I never used an appimage, but since I'm already providing the
precompiled binaries I guess I can try to provide an appimage too.

I'll check how to build one and eventually upload the 0.3 version.

Just a question, I'm assuming you are familiar with the appimages as a
user, what's the benefit of an appimage/snap/... over a
statically-linked executable?  (from the POV of a user)

> Its great to see programs walking away from
> SystemD / Dbus / Pulseaudio &
> Python / perl / dotnet
>
> Thanks for your efforts, best of luck

Thanks! :)

Cheers,

Omar Polo

>
>
> Regards
> Charliebrownau
> charliebrownau at protonmail.com
>
>
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>
> On Friday, July 2nd, 2021 at 12:04 AM, <gemini-request at lists.orbitalfox.eu> wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1.  [users] [ANN] telescope -- yet another browser (Omar Polo)
>> 2.  Re: [users] [ANN] telescope -- yet another browser
>>
>>     (Jonathan McHugh)
>> 3.  Re: [users] [ANN] telescope -- yet another browser
>>
>>     (Jonathan McHugh)
>> 4.  Re: [users] [ANN] telescope -- yet another browser (Omar Polo)
>> 5.  Re: [users] [ANN] telescope -- yet another browser (Jonathan Lane)
>> 6.  Upload a file to gemlog.blue? (Brandon Taylor)
>> 7.  Re: Upload a file to gemlog.blue? (Andrew Singleton)
>>
>>
>> Message: 1
>>
>> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 18:51:33 +0200
>>
>> From: Omar Polo op at omarpolo.com
>>
>> To: Gemini application layer protocol gemini at lists.orbitalfox.eu
>>
>> Subject: [users] [ANN] telescope -- yet another browser
>>
>> Message-ID: 87im1ut1t6.fsf at omarpolo.com
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> During the last 3/4 months I've been working on a yet another Gemini
>>
>> ncurses client: telescope
>>
>> => gemini://telescope.omarpolo.com
>>
>> => https://telescope.omarpolo.com
>>
>> It's obviously a project only for fun, in a very-WIP stage and with lots
>>
>> of missing pieces, but it's improving and I've reached the point where I
>>
>> think I can present it to a wider audience.
>>
>> The main difference between telescope and others (I've only tried tinmop
>>
>> and amfora as TUI clients) is the Emacs (and w3m) inspired interface:
>>
>> instead of scrolling a page and typing a number to open a link, you have
>>
>> a cursor you can move freely around the page.
>>
>> The default keybindings are heavily inspired from Emacs, but I tried at
>>
>> least to include some keys familiar to vi(1) users, so hjkl, gg, G, gT
>>
>> etc. work. All the keybindings are customizable anyway.
>>
>> The current list of features is honestly quite short:
>>
>> -   color and keybindings are customizable
>> -   history
>> -   rudimentary bookmark management
>> -   tabs (on startup reloads the last set of tabs)
>> -   streaming pages
>> -   rich set of commands to move around the page
>> -   splitted in three different process, each one is pledged (this only
>>
>>     on OpenBSD ofc; will add seccomp/landlock in the future, probably)
>>
>>     while the TODO list is ever-growing!
>>
>>     I know there are various annoyances still (I just fixed the resize
>>
>>     "jump" in the main branch for instance), but as I was saying, it has
>>
>>     now reached a point where I think it's starting to become "usable". I'd
>>
>>     love to receive feedbacks (and even more patches! :P)
>>
>>     Telescope 0.3 is available on guix, thanks to cage who did the work.
>>
>>     Precompiled binaries for linux amd64 and aarch64 are available from the
>>
>>     site, but it's very easy to compile from source since it only depends on
>>
>>     libevent, libncursesw, libtls and yacc/bison. It's known to compile and
>>
>>     run on FreeBSD too.
>>
>>     Cheers,
>>
>>     Omar Polo
>>
>>
>> Message: 2
>>
>> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 17:12:52 +0000
>>
>> From: "Jonathan McHugh" indieterminacy at libre.brussels
>>
>> To: "Omar Polo" op at omarpolo.com, "Gemini application layer protocol"
>>
>>     <gemini at lists.orbitalfox.eu>
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [users] [ANN] telescope -- yet another browser
>>
>> Message-ID: abdda4069e4ae690a3f6d2b2217b46b5 at libre.brussels
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi Omar,
>>
>> Thanks for your work.
>>
>> Just a quick heads up, your Guix link featured on your HTTPS project homepage (I cant access Gemini on this device atm) is broken.
>>
>> It links to version 0.2 (giving a server error on the Guix page^1, whereas 0.3 is now available (and
>>
>> => https://guix.gnu.org/en/packages/telescope-0.3/
>>
>> I noticed the inputs into the system, nice and lightweight!
>>
>> => https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/tree/gnu/packages/web-browsers.scm#n911
>>
>> Im looking forward to testing it.
>>
>> Btw, what your impression of tinmop? I havent tried it yet.
>>
>> ^1 I dont recall the Guix HTTP package page navigating by version number. It makes sense I suppose.
>>
>>
>> =======================================================================================================================================================================================================
>>
>> Jonathan McHugh
>>
>> indieterminacy at libre.brussels
>>
>> July 1, 2021 6:52 PM, "Omar Polo" op at omarpolo.com wrote:
>>
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > During the last 3/4 months I've been working on a yet another Gemini
>> >
>> > ncurses client: telescope
>> >
>> > => gemini://telescope.omarpolo.com
>> >
>> > => https://telescope.omarpolo.com
>> >
>> > It's obviously a project only for fun, in a very-WIP stage and with lots
>> >
>> > of missing pieces, but it's improving and I've reached the point where I
>> >
>> > think I can present it to a wider audience.
>> >
>> > The main difference between telescope and others (I've only tried tinmop
>> >
>> > and amfora as TUI clients) is the Emacs (and w3m) inspired interface:
>> >
>> > instead of scrolling a page and typing a number to open a link, you have
>> >
>> > a cursor you can move freely around the page.
>> >
>> > The default keybindings are heavily inspired from Emacs, but I tried at
>> >
>> > least to include some keys familiar to vi(1) users, so hjkl, gg, G, gT
>> >
>> > etc. work. All the keybindings are customizable anyway.
>> >
>> > The current list of features is honestly quite short:
>> >
>> > -   color and keybindings are customizable
>> > -   history
>> > -   rudimentary bookmark management
>> > -   tabs (on startup reloads the last set of tabs)
>> > -   streaming pages
>> > -   rich set of commands to move around the page
>> > -   splitted in three different process, each one is pledged (this only
>> >
>> >     on OpenBSD ofc; will add seccomp/landlock in the future, probably)
>> >
>> > while the TODO list is ever-growing!
>> >
>> > I know there are various annoyances still (I just fixed the resize
>> >
>> > "jump" in the main branch for instance), but as I was saying, it has
>> >
>> > now reached a point where I think it's starting to become "usable". I'd
>> >
>> > love to receive feedbacks (and even more patches! :P)
>> >
>> > Telescope 0.3 is available on guix, thanks to cage who did the work.
>> >
>> > Precompiled binaries for linux amd64 and aarch64 are available from the
>> >
>> > site, but it's very easy to compile from source since it only depends on
>> >
>> > libevent, libncursesw, libtls and yacc/bison. It's known to compile and
>> >
>> > run on FreeBSD too.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Omar Polo
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 3
>>
>> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 17:16:23 +0000
>>
>> From: "Jonathan McHugh" indieterminacy at libre.brussels
>>
>> To: "Omar Polo" op at omarpolo.com, "Gemini application layer protocol"
>>
>>     <gemini at lists.orbitalfox.eu>
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [users] [ANN] telescope -- yet another browser
>>
>> Message-ID: 48478d02b5b0bb945dc193de6360c02f at libre.brussels
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi Omar,
>>
>> Would you please mind elaborating on this bullet point please?
>>
>>     * splitted in three different process, each one is pledged (this only
>>       on OpenBSD ofc; will add seccomp/landlock in the future, probably)
>>
>>
>> I feels like something I could just nod along to (without really/properly understanding) but I suspect it is probably an interesting design concept.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> ======================================================================================================================================================================
>>
>> Jonathan McHugh
>>
>> indieterminacy at libre.brussels
>>
>> July 1, 2021 6:52 PM, "Omar Polo" op at omarpolo.com wrote:
>>
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > During the last 3/4 months I've been working on a yet another Gemini
>> >
>> > ncurses client: telescope
>> >
>> > => gemini://telescope.omarpolo.com
>> >
>> > => https://telescope.omarpolo.com
>> >
>> > It's obviously a project only for fun, in a very-WIP stage and with lots
>> >
>> > of missing pieces, but it's improving and I've reached the point where I
>> >
>> > think I can present it to a wider audience.
>> >
>> > The main difference between telescope and others (I've only tried tinmop
>> >
>> > and amfora as TUI clients) is the Emacs (and w3m) inspired interface:
>> >
>> > instead of scrolling a page and typing a number to open a link, you have
>> >
>> > a cursor you can move freely around the page.
>> >
>> > The default keybindings are heavily inspired from Emacs, but I tried at
>> >
>> > least to include some keys familiar to vi(1) users, so hjkl, gg, G, gT
>> >
>> > etc. work. All the keybindings are customizable anyway.
>> >
>> > The current list of features is honestly quite short:
>> >
>> > -   color and keybindings are customizable
>> > -   history
>> > -   rudimentary bookmark management
>> > -   tabs (on startup reloads the last set of tabs)
>> > -   streaming pages
>> > -   rich set of commands to move around the page
>> > -   splitted in three different process, each one is pledged (this only
>> >
>> >     on OpenBSD ofc; will add seccomp/landlock in the future, probably)
>> >
>> > while the TODO list is ever-growing!
>> >
>> > I know there are various annoyances still (I just fixed the resize
>> >
>> > "jump" in the main branch for instance), but as I was saying, it has
>> >
>> > now reached a point where I think it's starting to become "usable". I'd
>> >
>> > love to receive feedbacks (and even more patches! :P)
>> >
>> > Telescope 0.3 is available on guix, thanks to cage who did the work.
>> >
>> > Precompiled binaries for linux amd64 and aarch64 are available from the
>> >
>> > site, but it's very easy to compile from source since it only depends on
>> >
>> > libevent, libncursesw, libtls and yacc/bison. It's known to compile and
>> >
>> > run on FreeBSD too.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Omar Polo
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 4
>>
>> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 20:37:26 +0200
>>
>> From: Omar Polo op at omarpolo.com
>>
>> To: Jonathan McHugh indieterminacy at libre.brussels
>>
>> Cc: Gemini application layer protocol gemini at lists.orbitalfox.eu
>>
>> Subject: Re: [users] [ANN] telescope -- yet another browser
>>
>> Message-ID: 87eechubh5.fsf at omarpolo.com
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain
>>
>> Jonathan McHugh indieterminacy at libre.brussels writes:
>>
>> > Hi Omar,
>> >
>> > Would you please mind elaborating on this bullet point please?
>> >
>> >     * splitted in three different process, each one is pledged (this only
>> >       on OpenBSD ofc; will add seccomp/landlock in the future, probably)
>> >
>> >
>> > I feels like something I could just nod along to (without really/properly understanding) but I suspect it is probably an interesting design concept.
>>
>> Probably I should have use the "privsep" term, but it felt a slightly
>>
>> exaggeration.
>>
>> Telescope forks as soon as it can into three processes, each one does
>>
>> only one thing (conceptually) and they talk via IPC (using imsg from
>>
>> OpenBSD' libutil in particular). Furthermore, on OpenBSD, each process
>>
>> is sandboxed with pledge(2) [0]. It's on my todo-list to do the same
>>
>> with seccomp on linux, but later, probably around the 1.0. Seccomp is
>>
>> very low-level and in general annoying to work with.
>>
>> This way, for e.g. the `client' process (the only one with the network
>>
>> access) can't be tricked into reading your ssh keys, because the kernel
>>
>> would kill it as soon as it tries to open(2).
>>
>> Modern web browsers also do something similar to this, at least to my
>>
>> understanding. (see firefox project electrolysis and fission)
>>
>> This is usually considered a security technique and while that's true,
>>
>> I find that it also encourages cleaner code that's simpler to reason
>>
>> about, when writing C at least.
>>
>> I wrote more about pledge/seccomp/capsicum here[1]: while the details
>>
>> regarding the implementation of gmid have changed a bit, the overall
>>
>> description of the different sandboxes is still relevant :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Omar Polo
>>
>> [0]: gemini://gemini.omarpolo.com/cgi/man/pledge or
>>
>> https://man.openbsd.org/pledge
>>
>> [1]: gemini://gemini.omarpolo.com/post/gmid-sandbox.gmi
>>
>> P.S.: Thanks for noticing the wrong url. I fixed it in the gemini
>>
>> version of the page when the patch for telescope 0.3 was
>>
>> committed, but forgot to update it in http-land!
>>
>> P.P.S: regarding tinmop: it's a very peculiar program -- in a good way.
>>
>> It's both a pleroma AND gemini client! It's a complete client:
>>
>> it has subscriptions support, a really cool history completion
>>
>> UI, built-in help, IRI support (I haven't tested this one though)
>>
>> and so on. And did I mention that it's also a pleroma client? :D
>>
>> I'm a little bit biased though, because both cage and I are
>>
>> usually on #gemini-it on libera.chat and talk frequently. He
>>
>> (and the others there) have influenced telescope and I think I
>>
>> can say that I did the same with tinmop.
>>
>> > Kind regards,
>> >
>> > ====================
>> >
>> > Jonathan McHugh
>> >
>> > indieterminacy at libre.brussels
>> >
>> > July 1, 2021 6:52 PM, "Omar Polo" op at omarpolo.com wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hello everyone,
>> > >
>> > > During the last 3/4 months I've been working on a yet another Gemini
>> > >
>> > > ncurses client: telescope
>> > >
>> > > => gemini://telescope.omarpolo.com
>> > >
>> > > => https://telescope.omarpolo.com
>> > >
>> > > It's obviously a project only for fun, in a very-WIP stage and with lots
>> > >
>> > > of missing pieces, but it's improving and I've reached the point where I
>> > >
>> > > think I can present it to a wider audience.
>> > >
>> > > The main difference between telescope and others (I've only tried tinmop
>> > >
>> > > and amfora as TUI clients) is the Emacs (and w3m) inspired interface:
>> > >
>> > > instead of scrolling a page and typing a number to open a link, you have
>> > >
>> > > a cursor you can move freely around the page.
>> > >
>> > > The default keybindings are heavily inspired from Emacs, but I tried at
>> > >
>> > > least to include some keys familiar to vi(1) users, so hjkl, gg, G, gT
>> > >
>> > > etc. work. All the keybindings are customizable anyway.
>> > >
>> > > The current list of features is honestly quite short:
>> > >
>> > > -   color and keybindings are customizable
>> > > -   history
>> > > -   rudimentary bookmark management
>> > > -   tabs (on startup reloads the last set of tabs)
>> > > -   streaming pages
>> > > -   rich set of commands to move around the page
>> > > -   splitted in three different process, each one is pledged (this only
>> > >
>> > >     on OpenBSD ofc; will add seccomp/landlock in the future, probably)
>> > >
>> > > while the TODO list is ever-growing!
>> > >
>> > > I know there are various annoyances still (I just fixed the resize
>> > >
>> > > "jump" in the main branch for instance), but as I was saying, it has
>> > >
>> > > now reached a point where I think it's starting to become "usable". I'd
>> > >
>> > > love to receive feedbacks (and even more patches! :P)
>> > >
>> > > Telescope 0.3 is available on guix, thanks to cage who did the work.
>> > >
>> > > Precompiled binaries for linux amd64 and aarch64 are available from the
>> > >
>> > > site, but it's very easy to compile from source since it only depends on
>> > >
>> > > libevent, libncursesw, libtls and yacc/bison. It's known to compile and
>> > >
>> > > run on FreeBSD too.
>> > >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > >
>> > > Omar Polo
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 5
>>
>> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 21:54:18 +0000
>>
>> From: Jonathan Lane tidux at sdf.org
>>
>> To: gemini at lists.orbitalfox.eu
>>
>> Subject: Re: [users] [ANN] telescope -- yet another browser
>>
>> Message-ID: 20210701215418.jmhcf4gqjh6jmfcs at faeroes.freeshell.org
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 01, 2021 at 06:51:33PM +0200, Omar Polo wrote:
>>
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > During the last 3/4 months I've been working on a yet another Gemini
>> >
>> > ncurses client: telescope
>> >
>> > => gemini://telescope.omarpolo.com
>> >
>> > => https://telescope.omarpolo.com
>> >
>> > It's obviously a project only for fun, in a very-WIP stage and with lots
>> >
>> > of missing pieces, but it's improving and I've reached the point where I
>> >
>> > think I can present it to a wider audience.
>>
>> It looks great! I like it so far. The one missing feature that would
>>
>> let me ditch Amfora completely is local file support.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> tidux at sdf.org
>>
>> SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>>
>> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 18:33:49 -0500
>>
>> From: Brandon Taylor br.ta.2818 at gmail.com
>>
>> To: gemini at lists.orbitalfox.eu
>>
>> Subject: Upload a file to gemlog.blue?
>>
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> CAMYTvdBHvifqAC-6ZM3BVzFWp+ptv4g=oJEWj6t1M-aYKb6HEA at mail.gmail.com
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I know the maintainers of gemlog.blue intended their capsule to be a
>>
>> quick-and-easy way for new Gemini protocol users to learn the basics of the
>>
>> thing -- create an account, add a post, edit a post, delete a post. But my
>>
>> question is, is there any way to do a direct upload of a Gemini file to
>>
>> this capsule? If not, what would be a better Gemini capsule that would
>>
>> accommodate for direct uploads?
>>
>> Brandon Taylor
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>>
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>
>> URL: https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/attachments/20210701/e902037b/attachment-0001.htm
>>
>> Message: 7
>>
>> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 00:04:28 +0000 (UTC)
>>
>> From: Andrew Singleton singletona082 at gmail.com
>>
>> To: Brandon Taylor br.ta.2818 at gmail.com
>>
>> Cc: gemini at lists.orbitalfox.eu
>>
>> Subject: Re: Upload a file to gemlog.blue?
>>
>> Message-ID: 21e78f27-4a5d-4876-9e4b-acc8d2e975d4 at gmail.com
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Flounder.online allows sftp access to your user directory. Their web tools on the http site are pretty meh, and they have a few here limits (128k max file size, I want to say a 104 or so file limit. 10mb userspace limit.)
>>
>> They also mirror user content for html browsers, which is how I found the site out. So also doubles as easy way to advertise your content on the Big Web too. Not perfect, but it's letting me built a site up and get into the habit of maintaining it so if I end up migrating I can just take my backup and go elsewhere. Also the server maintainer and owner seems interested in allowing users to compress their sites to .gml files but I don't know if there's been any work yet on they front.
>>
>> Apologies for sounding like an advertisement. The place is really nice as a 'getting your feet wet' option specially if, like me. You have no disposable income.
>>
>> Jul 1, 2021 6:34:24 PM Brandon Taylor br.ta.2818 at gmail.com:
>>
>> > I know the maintainers of gemlog.blue intended their capsule to be a quick-and-easy way for new Gemini protocol users to learn the basics of the thing -- create an account, add a post, edit a post, delete a post. But my question is, is there any way to do a direct upload of a Gemini /file/?to this capsule? If not, what would be a better Gemini capsule that would accommodate for direct uploads?
>> >
>> > Brandon Taylor
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>>
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>>
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>>
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